Marketing based on personality & values isn’t rocket science, but in today’s episode our guest, Jen Draper, started her working life leading and managing just that, rocket scientist! When Jen was ready for something new, she turned to work as an independent contractor and financial planner. Naturally, Jen’s next steps involved hours of sales training, scripts, and talking to more than 100 people a day. After quickly realizing this method of soul-sucking sales just wasn’t going to work for her, she turned to what she knew best, SCIENCE! She discovered a methodology in the world that is scientifically validated to predict buying behavior in 90 seconds or less. Today, Audrey and Jen are going to talk to us about Jen’s system, BANK, and why it is improving communication with clients, prospects, friends, and family.
Links Mentioned In This Episode
Episode 37- Strong Brand Identity Part 1: The Customer
What we discussed:
- BANK (Blueprint, Action, Nurturing, Knowledge)
- Communicate effectively with people the first time
- Brand continuity
Marketing Based On Personality & Values BANK
*Not ready to give this episode a listen or watch just yet? Below is a rough transcript of today’s episode.*
Hi everyone. This is Audrey Kerchner with Inkyma’s marketing
strategies. And today we have a really great treat for you. We are doing
an interview today, so audio as well as video. So if you’re listening to this
on your favorite podcast, go run over to our website or go to YouTube, to
our YouTube channel and check out the video there.
You can just in both places, just look for Inkyma, that’s I N K Y M A
.com. So before I introduce our guest, I’m going to do what I normally do
and talk about little housekeeping things. So we’re going to probably be
talking about past episodes, links to other sites, references all this great
stuff and make sure you go check out the show notes.
As usual, all the links are going to be in the show notes, both on the
website and in YouTube to make your life easier. So with all of that, I
would love to introduce you to my friend, Jen Draper, who is the owner
of the Draper group. And today we’re going to talk to you about BANK.
So if you don’t know what BANK is now, you will.
And you’ll probably be like, how do I get that by the time we are done
with this episode? Jen, thanks so much for being on the podcast, the
video podcast. I’m really glad that you’re here and you’re actually the first
person that I’ve done video podcasting with, I think it’s perfect. That it’s
me and you.
Thanks for having me. I appreciate it course. So tell us a little bit about
BANK and then you’re a trainer you’re, you’ve trained me in BANK. And
so tell us a little bit about your qualifications and certifications that so
people understand, how cool this really. Sure. So BANK’s an acronym
and it stands for Blueprint, Action, Nurturing, and Knowledge.
So you know how sometimes you’re having a conversation with
somebody and then all of the sudden there’s a disconnect and it’s you
can almost hear the relationship breaking usually that’s because
somewhere along the line, you’ve crossed values. So your prioritizing
one set of values and the other person is prioritizing a different set of
And when we prioritize those different sets of values, we communicate in
different ways. And so if I’m going along and I’m prioritizing fun, fun, fun,
fun, fun, but you’re prioritizing systems. We have this cross
communication stream and it breaks things. So BANK is a way of
learning how to communicate effectively with people.
The first time we meet them so that we can get to know, like and trust
faster. And this is really effective in marketing, obviously, when you want
to get to know, like and trust with somebody as soon as possible I’m a
licensed and certified trainer with BANK, the company is called Code
Breaker Technologies and I’ve been licensed and certified with them for
about six and a half years.
That’s awesome. So the link to sign up for that, it’s going to be in the
show notes. So if anybody is interested in taking the course, and I’m also
going to put a link to the book, because that’s where I started. Jen talked
about it. I took the intro, I read the book and I was like, Jen, I need this
So just for everybody out there as business owners, the reason I did this
is because, we build websites, we write copy all the time. And so what
Jen has helped me do. Is to write copy for the different values and
personalities so that when they read it, it feels like our copy is speaking
to them and that’s really important.
But that’s how I’m using it. How else would you recommend business
owners use this? So we see a lot of benefit for business owners,
especially if they use any kind of interaction with humans. Which is
pretty much most business owners. When Codebreaker actually went to
a company and said, we need to get evaluation on the value of our
intellectual property insurance and all those things, they came back and
they said, we can’t actually put a value on this because we can’t figure
out how to limit the audience.
Literally everybody uses this. So this was originally created by a sales
person, Cheri Tree for salespeople. And in the course of teaching this
25, we’re over 25 years now, over the course of teaching this over 25
years, what we found is that salespeople get a great amount of benefit
from this because they can get to know, like and trust with their clients
And we’ve also found that business owners who teach this to their
technicians and their customer service offices, they get much better
customer service ratings. We know that when business owners and
people who’ve had this training, they take it home with them. All of a
sudden their personal relationships get a lot better because they know
how to most effectively communicate.
They know what that other person is listening for and they can now give
that person what they need in order to make the decision they need to
make. Yeah. I remember that from the training when we were going
through the different segments of, okay, here’s a professional person,
but who are your kids, who are your spouses?
And I remember that aha moment that I had was like, oh, okay. Yeah.
Now I know why, he acts that way and I can appreciate it better. I can do
better things. So yeah, I re I remember that. Yeah, it’s helped across
many things. So you mentioned sales teams and I did a previous
podcast where I talked about how marketing and sales are two sides of
the same coin.
They’re not really competitors. From your perspective, how could
accompany me implement something like BANK, not only for their
marketing, but for their sales team, where they could, they could share
content or structure. So it’s really important, right? When you have
marketing and sales teams, that there is a fluidity between the marketing
and the sales, you don’t want marketing to be using one phrasing.
And one way of talking about the thing and the sales guy. Using a
completely different thing. It feels very inauthentic and it’s a break. It’s a
mental break for the client. So we always want to make sure that we’re
being fluid across those arenas. What we’re saying in marketing, we
want our sales teams to also be saying, so it’s important when your
sales teams are getting training, that you’re also training your marketing
teams on the same thing.
What’s cool about BANK is that once we teach you how to use this
communication, pretty soon, everybody’s talking about things the same
way, because you know what you’re aiming for, what you’re looking for in
your clients and you know most effective way to talk to them about your
product service or good.
Yeah. And, your marketing team, they’re usually the ones that are writing
the copy for the leave behinds and the forms and all the stuff that the
sales team uses, they create the collateral. It would be great if, they all
get trained together and the sales team knows why, or they even get a
cheat sheet that says, here’s what we use for bees.
Here’s what we’re using for As. Here’s what we’re using for Ns and Ks.
And it almost that’s what it is. And part of that, I love…because it’s brand
continuity, right? And I love brand continuity. It’s not just about the logo
or the type font. It’s how you talk to the people. That’s how they feel your
brand, the phrases and the terminologies that you use.
So that’s really, really cool. I love that. Making sure everybody’s on the
same page and I bet the salespeople love it because they get more
sales. I could see them coming back and going, Hey, I want to tweak this
language so that it works better for all of us. So true. It’s so true. And I
love how you talk about the brand continuity, right?
Because brand is really a conversation between your business and the
clients, and it starts from that very first exposure they have to you,
whether that’s on marketing collateral. It’s a conversation with a human
being and then the conversation continues and it’s this evolving…. Okay.
You’re hearing it in an email.
You’re seeing it in an advertisement. You’re hearing it in the podcast.
Now you’re talking to a salesperson. And so that conversation really
starts from that first exposure to the brand all the way through the client
relationship to the very bitter end. And what I love is when you get
clients that mimic your brand language back to you. I’ve had a client do
that where I was talking to a new person in the company and I
rebranded that company like two years before. And he’s we’re this blah,
blah, blah company. I’m like, I know you are because I wrote it.
Then I emailed the the COO and I said, dude, it’s working. That was an
exciting one. Yeah. So I love. For salespeople to be able to see that our
marketing people see that like the client comes back with your
messaging on their tongue because they’re, they bought into the brand.
I love that. That it’s a conversation that you said that it really is. It’s just,
it’s part of the language and the imagery and everything. Let me ask you
this. If you have like examples of how companies have actually utilized
BANK and unique fun, different ways in sales and marketing, the
audience here, they’re big companies, little companies, sometimes
But I always like giving out examples cause I think it helps inspire them.
One of my favorite clients is actually a locally owned HVAC company.
So heating and cooling type things. And they hire me to come in about
once every two years and train their techs, the people that are going into
other people’s homes on how to use BANK in those homes.
Because here’s what we see. Techs are, in the trades especially, are
very high knowledge individuals. So they’re super smart, but they place
a very high high priority on information and data. And not everybody else
does that. So when a tech goes into somebody’s house and they’re like,
hey you need a new heater and here are your three heater options and
let me give you all of the tech details on these three high by page.
Yes. Yeah. Not everybody wants that. Not everybody wants that. In fact,
some personality types don’t want options at all. They expect you to be
the expert and they want you to just make a recommendation. We have
three options for you. Let me tell you about the one I recommend for
Here’s the one I recommend for you. This is what’s best for your
situation and it’s going to fit in your budget. And then that personality
style will be that’s the one I want and it’s done. Some personalities want
those options, but they don’t want the details about the options, but they
want to know is here’s my budget offering.
Here’s my what most people get and here’s my VIP option. It’s the latest
and greatest, I think that’s the right one for you. And that’s all they want.
They don’t want all the details. They just want to know it’s the VIP option.
So you can see that’s two completely different personality styles. If you
know how to talk to them, you can get to know, like and trust faster, build
a relationship faster.
Not only have you built a sale, but you’ve built a relationship, that’s going
to allow you to continue to work with that customer long-term.
Absolutely. Which increases the lifetime value of that customer. You’re
selling them HVAC today, depending on what else you do in the future,
you could just keep selling to them over and over again because they
get that feeling of, this company gets me, the guy that comes and sees
me he’s my pal. We talk the same language versus, the one guy that
came to my house and fixed our lock and proceeded to tell me for 15
minutes, how the lock worked.
Oh, I was getting ready to cut off my own hand, just to have an excuse
There is a personality that wants all that information, but both most don’t.
Well, and sometimes it’s point in time. I have, there are times where, and
depending on the subject and point in time, I want details and then other
stuff, not so much. So being able to identify that, and we talked about
that in training too.
It’s you may want knowledge in this situation, but not in this one. And
then like, how do you tell the difference with the person standing in front
of you being able to read those cues? Yeah. And it’s important to watch
for those because in our system we know that people aren’t always the
So just like you said, as my environment shifts, as the people I’m with
shift, then the information that I’m going to respond to most effectively is
also going to shift. Right? So I might need it in a certain environment
while I’m talking sales or something. Maybe I need all of that data, but I
let’s say I get a phone call for my child.
All of a sudden my needs have shifted and the kind of information I’m
looking for is completely different. So it’s important to notice those shifts
when I come off of that phone call and maybe be back in the sales
conversation. But I may have come back as a different personality
because now I’m prioritizing different values.
Absolutely. Yeah. When you, yeah your perspective on something has
shifted when you get back into that, so how do you recommend…what
kind of cues do you have people look for to figure out not only their main
personality but where they are at that moment in time. So it’s never our
own personality…in a communication environment, when we’re trying to
have a conversation with somebody, our own personality’s not actually
the most important. The personality of the person we’re talking to is the
one that’s the most important. So how do you check those cues? So the
initial perspective of what somebody, what personality, what values
they’re prioritizing, that initial perspective comes as they’re walking up to
you and I’m looking at their shoes, I’m looking at their clothes.
If I can see it, I’m checking out their car. One of the first questions I’m
going to ask them is, what do you do for a living? Because what
profession they’re in is probably a reflection of the values that they
prioritize most frequently. But I’m also going to listen to, what’s their
tone, how they choose to talk, what are they choosing to talk about?
All of those things are going to give me clues as to what values they’re
prioritizing right then, which lets me know which values I want to be
communicating to. Absolutely. And I love that you ask those questions
like what profession they’re in, because when we do branding, we put
together a customer persona, Jill, she’s a 35 year old professional and
she does these things and yes, I talk to myself in this voice as I’m
And what I’ve added based off of our training is I’ve added another
column to that. What’s their code. What is their average code? Meaning
if we want them to buy these really, the company that’s high end, slick
sneakers that cost $250 a pair, but they’re unique and stylish. What,
who’s the likely purchaser of that.
And so we put that in and then we add their values. The list. They’re high
action for those sneakers. What are the things that they like? They like
working out, they like dressing well. And then their value system that’s
associated to it. And that’s how we’re starting to pull it in to talk to people
when they’re on the website, in digital advertising, in the newsletter.
To figure it out. And then like you had told us, it’s like the code the first
and the last are the most important. So what do we talk to them about in
the first spot and what do we stay away from in the last spot.
Corporate…Cheri actually did some training at a Ferrari dealership. And
they were like, we know right away, our two personality types are the
High Action, who really like the status symbols and High Knowledge,
who really liked the exquisite engineering, right? So it was really easy
when they’re doing their branding and they’re doing their sales
conversations, the only time they need to have that Blueprint and
Nurturing pieces, if the spouse comes in with them and they may have to
respond to a little bit of that, but the purchaser, the person who wants
that car Action and Knowledge.
So you’re not going to spend your marketing dollars talking to Blueprint
and Nurturing when you know that your target market is those Action
and Knowledge personalities. And that’s such an important point
because yeah, you got to spend your marketing dollars on the people
that are, that you want, that are most likely going to get the most
enjoyment out of what you offer or the best service Yoda, your
we all love being Yoda. Yeah. So be the Yoda people be the Yoda. I tell
them that I talk to people about that all the time, but yes, definitely.
Alrighty. Hopefully everybody who’s listening is like, I got it, I need this. I
gotta have it, everything. Where do you recommend people to start?
Should they start with some training?
Should they go to your basic training? Should they read the book?
Should, what should they do? So it depends on your personality, right?
So some of you are going to be like, I just need to know some basic
information before I make a decision. And for you, I would recommend
you get the book. Why They Buy. It’s a black cover, says Why They Buy
across the front of it.
Oops. There we go. Yes. Why They Buy that’s the book by Cheri Tree,
we do have it in a PDF format. So if you would rather read it digitally,
instead of having the hard copy book, we can do that. So for people who
want just a little bit more depth of data around that, you can get the
book. For those of you that are like.
I know, I need to get to know, like and trust faster. I know I need to be
able to make that communication shift as quickly as possible. So if
you’re in the trades or you’re in sales and you’re like, I don’t have time to
read a book, I want to just go straight to the training. We have online
training, that’s prerecorded virtual.
It’s a membership subscription. So when you’re done, you’re done. We
have lots of options there. And then I offer virtual classes. So you can
have an actual instructor to talk about. We break the training up into
three segments. So the very first class is called fundamentals. And in
fundamentals, we’re going to talk about the four personality types in
No kidding. Here’s what’s going on. This is what you need to know about
the four types. In that class, we’re going to give you the most relevant
ways to talk to those people. Sales tips. We’re going to give you
relationship tips. We’re going to talk about how do you no kidding. Get to
know, like and trust fastest with each of the four times, the second class
we teach is speed coding.
And in that class, we’re going to teach you how to know what personality
somebody is as they’re walking up to you. It’s a very experiential class.
We do a lot of exercises in there. You’re going to practice the skills that
you’re learning. And then our master level class, like no kidding. I need
to be able to do this really well is called power scripting.
And you’re going to learn to talk about something, your product, your
service, your good, your nonprofit cause. You’re going to learn how to
talk about something in exquisite detail in all four languages. And then
we’re going to do a fifth way of talking to them that incorporates all four
languages in one so-called script.
So each of those classes are different levels. I teach all of them. I’m
certified to teach all of those classes. I do teach them online. I have a
series that is going to be starting in the April timeframe. Oh, cool. So I’ll
make sure I put all of that in there too. And then I get update things to
people if they come through and they’re like, when’s the next class?
We can certainly get that out to them, but yeah I’ve loved the class so
far. And just for everybody listening is I’m in the middle of the
Masterclass. Which is so fun for me. The funny thing is remember during
a power scripting, you had a couple of A personality types and it got a
little competitive in there.
It was very entertaining, right? Really it was. It was. It was like, I won
and their score was something that totally didn’t exist, but it’s okay. It
doesn’t matter that the math didn’t work. You Won. There you go,
those Actions. Gotta win. Yeah. Gotta win at all costs no matter what.
But they’re fun and entertaining to be around for sure. Absolutely. We’re
getting to the end. Believe it or not. We’ve been, we’ve actually been
talking for quite a bit of time here. Any final thoughts takeaways, things
that you want to leave people with?
I think the number one thing that I like to remind people, if you take
nothing else away from this conversation please meet people where
they are. Don’t talk to them like they’re you, cause they’re not, we’re all
unique. We’re all individual. Talk to them where they are, meet them,
where they are, connect with them, where they are.
It’s the most important thing you can do to help your conversations get
better. That is so true, regardless if it’s, you’re trying to sell to them or
just make another business partner. Which are really important. Jen,
thanks so much for being on. It was great spending this time with you
and sharing BANK with everybody else.
I hope there’s excited about is I am, it was a real game changer for me in
my business. So I wanted to make sure we got that out there. Awesome.
Thanks so much for having me on. I appreciate it. You’re welcome.
Okay. I’m going to do my little close now. All right, everybody. Here
Inkyma, we like to give back to you in the business community.
So if you go to the website, Inkyma.com, that’s I N K Y M A.com in the
upper right hand corner, you can schedule a 45 minute free consultation
with me. We’ll do a video call like this. I’ll record it for you if you want to.
And you can talk about whatever you want. Maybe you want to ask me
questions about BANK or about StoryBrand or about your website or
figuring out how you talk to people without talking about yourself first, or
maybe you just want to talk about digital ads, whatever you want.
Those 45 minutes are yours. So again, go to the website, click on the
link. Schedule your time and we are on the calendar. If you have a quick
question or if you have a suggestion for a show, I always love the
suggestions. Go down to the contact form. I get all of those emails and I
respond to them.
So hopefully you found this inspiring enlightening, something that you
want to do, but more importantly, if you think it’s really valuable, share it
with the rest of your business community. This is how we lift each other
up and become a really great, robust business community all across the
country, all across the world.
So thanks so much for listening and watching and have an amazing day.