Podcasting As Marketing Tactic – Interview with Duane France

What we discussed:

• Celebrating an episode milestone
• Duane’s Consulting Firm- Head Space and Timing
• How Content Marketing has changed in the last 10-20 years (blogs vs podcasts; they’re better together)
• Repurposing your content
• The REAL simplicity of podcasting; Done is better than perfect!

*Not ready to give this episode a listen or watch just yet? Below is a rough transcript of today’s episode.*

Hi, everyone. And welcome to Inkyma’s is marketing strategy. And this is
a really big deal. This is episode 50 for us. And the reason I say us is
that today my guest is my awesome podcast producer Duane France
with Head Space and Timing. So we’re going to chat today a little bit
about using podcasts as a marketing tactic.
Cause he’s got such a wealth of knowledge and I really couldn’t have
done any of this without him past the first month or so it’s really the
reason why I’m still able to keep going through this and I love doing it. As
usual before we get into the meat of the content, just a little bit of
housekeeping.
Duane and I are going to talk about things we’re going to mention links
probably mention past episodes. All of those links are going to be in the
show notes and anything else we feel like is going to be important. Now
this is a podcast, but it’s also a video cast. Probably making that up in
the moment, but we’re going with it.
So if you want to watch us interact with us, definitely go to the YouTube
channel for Inkyma, or go to the website and look at the episode. So
Inkyma is spelled I – N – K – Y- M – A; Either search for the website or just
go to YouTube search for us and we’ll come right up. Okay. So now let’s
get into it. Hi, Duane, how are you?
I’m doing very well, Audrey. Thank you. Excellent. I’m doing good too!
It’s bright and early for us here in sunny Colorado, which I like doing stuff
early. So Duane, tell us a little bit about Head Space and Timing before
we get into it. Yeah, absolutely. So a Head Space and Timing is my
essentially it’s a consulting firm.
And so after I retired from the army in 2014 I became a clinical mental
health counselor. And so Head Space and Timing I’ve been podcasting
since 2017 blogging since earlier than that. And Head Space and Timing
was the name of the original podcast that we developed as well as the
blog and really the goal of the company, and my personal goal at that
point and in a lot of the other things that I do is helping organizations
understand how to address mental health and behavioral health
concerns for service members, veterans, and their families. That’s what
the original blog and podcasts were focused on. For people who may not
be familiar with the military Head Space and timing is referring to a
particular type of equipment.

So we, in the military, we have the M2 machine gun. It’s one of the
largest machine guns in all branches of services. Use it air force, Navy
Marine Corps, army. And so it’s this giant weapon at six foot long it’s,
destructive. And but the thing is. In some of the older models, of course,
for it to work properly, you had a very small thing called a head space
and timing gauge, and it was about the size of my thumb.
And so if the head space, the space between the head of The carriage
and then the barrel isn’t set correctly. And the timing, if the way that it
strikes the bullet isn’t timed properly then this giant weapon is totally
useless. And that’s the same thing for service members and veterans is
that we are, you can drop us in the mud.
Or, kick us around and knock us down a hill and we’ll still operate. But if
our Head Space and our timing, the way that we’re interacting in the
world, isn’t set up correctly then we’re not as effective as we could be.
And so essentially from the early content creation days of the blog and
the podcast to now I do consultation for authors and content producers.
That’s specifically related to mental health, suicide prevention and
behavioral health.
Which I think is so important. We’ve talked about this. I don’t know if the
listeners know, but. You were in the army. I am a Marine brat, right? My
dad, my uncle, I was born in 29 Palms. So that is a topic that hits super
close to home for me.
So one, I appreciate that you’re doing that so much to help all of our
veterans and servicemen. Give us the website before we move on.
Cause I think that’s important. Sure. Pretty much everything is found at
the home base of veteranmentalhealth.com. That’s a, all one word
veteranmentalhealth.com. And the link will be in the show notes.
No worries. All right. So let’s talk about podcasting. So I got into this kind
of by the seat of my pants, I knew I wanted to get out there, share this
content with business owners. And I chose podcasting cause I already
had a blog. I was always doing that, but I wanted another vehicle.
So I see podcasting from a marketing perspective as a tactic. As content
marketing. In my brain, it’s no different than writing a blog article or
posting out to social media. It’s just another avenue. And now we’re

doing this great thing where it’s audio and certain episodes are going to
be video.
So I think that’s pretty cool. And so like you and I chitchatted, I
remember when we first started this about how this is going to work and
what kind of content should be. And then we changed some stuff
around, so it’s really been a great synergistic endeavor between the two
of us.
So I think it’s going really well. How do you think it’s going? Cause being
a podcast producer being the person like talking on screen and you look
at the stats and you’re like, is this good? What’s this? I don’t know if this
is any good. So I’d love to hear your perspective on how you think… how
we’re doing.
Yeah, I think that one just the, and I don’t even want to say it’s a
diversion away from content creation, like blogging, but it’s like you said,
it’s a natural extension. You’re already doing it. But it’s not as well known
as blogging. We’ve, people have been blogging for 15, 20 years.
Even going back to posting on message boards in the nineties, in the
beginning of blogging. So there’s a lot of understanding around blogging
as content marketing. There’s obviously a lot of understanding around
like for example, YouTube and video, as far as content. But I think that
people don’t think about podcasting as an adjunct to either doing the
whole, hosting a blog or having a written blog on the website.
And I think that you, courage, really or just the idea of this is another
area in which that we can share our knowledge. It’s encouraging. But it’s
also easier than a lot of people think there’s a, the idea of, and it’s
interesting to me, people like they’re much more comfortable on video,
but you stick a microphone in my face and people are just like, I don’t
know.
And I think we shared this as we were talking about this being your 50th
episode most podcasts don’t get past 10 episodes or even 20 episodes.
Having the longevity, if you think about releasing a show once a week,
you’ve been doing this for a year. And the more experience you have,
the better it gets. One thing, this is probably the third or the fourth show
that I’ve been involved with producing.

And one of the things I say is never go back and listen to your first
episodes. Let listeners go back and listen to the first episodes, but we
listened to them with different ears. And as we continue we get better
and better, and we have more experience just like anything else that we
do. Same thing with going back to someone, reading their early blogs
and the mistakes that you now recognize that you would’ve made then
podcasting is the same thing.
But I just want to congratulate you on hitting 50 episodes. It’s a pretty big
deal. It is, it feels like it’s a big deal. And I can tell why a lot of podcasters
don’t stay with it. You need some sort of motivation. You look and you
say, wow, great one person listened, or I only have three followers.
I think what I bring to the table is that I understand how long it takes for
content, regardless of what it is to organically grow. So it is a long game.
It is a really long game. But with a blog, with my blog and with customers
blogs, we get two years into it. And then we see these great, fantastic
pops in the content.
Like all of a sudden this thing skyrockets because of what happened. So
I’m like it’s coming it’s happening. And then of course, talking to people, I
share it. I talked to people and I’m like listen: Listen to this episode
because they asked me questions. I’m like, I got an episode for that. And
they’re like, wow, that’s great.
And they go and listen to it and get feedback. They’re like, that was so
good. That was so helpful. I get a lot of the “so’s” but. It’s really great
hearing that feedback. And the other thing I think a podcast does that a
blog doesn’t do as much anymore is it’s it increases your credibility and
your authority tenfold.
As soon as I tell someone I have a podcast. They go, oh, okay. Cause
they think it’s really hard to produce. And, but I think the other thing too
is if you’re going to put yourself out there in a podcast and talk and that
kind of thing, you have to have a certain level of confidence in what
you’re talking about.
So I think it’s one of those separators. So if someone’s going to do this, I
would say, yeah, definitely do the blog. Do the podcast because they
support and help each other. And I really feel like that not only has this
allowed me to help people, but when I’m talking to potential clients, it
helps close the deal. Yeah.

And you’re absolutely right. And you think about, let’s say somebody in
2001 say I have a blog that people like, oh, you have a blog. And like
there was a measure of your…. This is another evolution in thought
leadership. Not that I really value that phrase, but this idea of you have
things to share and podcasting, and again, podcasting has been around
early days, 2010, or even as early as 2008.
But really has grown exponentially over the last four to five years. And it
does give a measure of legitimacy even to the legitimacy of I wouldn’t do
that. So kudos for you for doing that. But then also it’s like that audio
FAQ. I think I’ve heard you mentioned it before on episodes where you
say this is something that I continually am asked over and over again by
business owners.
And so if I’m continually asked this, then obviously there’s more people
out there that aren’t asking this question that need this information that
you can then capture it. And so just we’re always doing Google
searching. You want to be one of the things that come up whenever
somebody looks for that particular question and so on, on the.
Creation site I think is very valuable. But then also just the ease of use
for podcasting. If you’re reading a blog, you’re reading something on a
website, right? If you’re watching a video on YouTube, many people are
watching this, it’s gotta be static, right? That’s the one thing that you’re
doing with podcasts, it’s really a multi-use type of situation in which.
People are like, I was listening to an audio book, or my workout this
morning, or while you’re running or walking the dogs or doing the laundry
or making dinner or something like that. So it’s really, while you’re driving
to work, you’re consuming content. And so it’s a way to say multitask,
but also to, to be able to access the medium of audio only while we’re
doing other things.
I don’t even listen to radio much anymore because it’s usually podcasts
and audio books. I’m the same way. I’m either audio books, podcasts,
some music, something to that effect. What’s interesting is I’m like a
multi-channel person. Like I consume all content at those three levels. I
read: books, blogs articles. I’ll watch YouTube videos. We talked about
that. Like I’m a huge YouTube fan. And then I also like to listen to just
audio, same thing. It’s like cleaning the house, something to that effect.
And I swap between all of it. So I think making content versatile is I think
the other or the next evolutionary step.

So if someone’s got a blog, maybe they’re podcasting. Or, and they write
a book that they’ve hit the trifecta. And they shouldn’t be afraid to overlap
the content, or repurpose the content. So I’ve written three books and I
don’t know how to write books because I compiled a series of blog
articles into three separate books.
And then I’ve also purposed blog articles into podcast episodes. And
then I’ve repurposed podcast episodes into mini blog articles and a
number of different things. In that series that I did last year on military
and veteran suicide prevention we’re developing the emergent themes
and that’s going to come out as a book.
And so I think that there’s this idea of not having the content separate
but it can actually be repurposed in a number of different ways.
Absolutely. I love the term repurposed. Cause then you can take that
and then you have push vehicles, right? You’ve got newsletters. You’ve
got posting it up to your Google My Business, which is infinite.
That’s like a whole nother episode that I got to put together for Google
My Business. You push it there, you push it via social, all your different
channels. So yeah it’s creating the content across multiple platforms and
then pushing it out. And one, person’s going to find it in one way.
They’re not going to find it in all eight or nine, or if they do great,
because then they’re just really engaged with your content, which is not
a bad thing. So that’s where my brain is going. And like the idea of a
book has been sitting in the back of my mind and I’m like, okay, I gotta
take a breath a minute.
And then I’ll think about the book thing. But yeah, it’s sitting back there to
to publish a book we’ll see. And I think that’s where it’s about what you’re
most comfortable with. You and I had talked about video content. I’m not
a video guy. The joke is I got a voice for radio and a a face for radio or
what have you.
But I think for me and my. The way I like to develop content is very
deliberate and I edit, and I, with blogs, you can go back and make sure
is this saying what I’m going to say? And same thing with podcasts is
you can be very deliberate, but with video, especially if it’s an unedited
video, you get what you get.

And that’s just not something that I’m necessarily normally comfortable
with as a content producer. And so podcasts are another way for people
to be able to just get their information out there because they’re like, oh,
I could never do a YouTube live or something like that. I’ve tried it. It’s
like it’s fingernails on a chalkboard for me, because again, not to say that
I like to be edited and polished and stuff like that.
But just the spontaneity of it. I usually like to develop my thoughts in a
different way. And so I think that podcasting gives people the ability to
really, as you said, make sure that they’re aligned with their brand, make
sure that they’re getting the message that they want to get across. And
the words that are hitting their customers that it’s a way that a lot of
people could do those things easily.
And once people get over the intimidation factor, either they do it like,
like I did it myself is except for the first three or four episodes of my first
podcast, back in 2017, I’ve done all the editing and producing and
content writing and things like that. Or like you that you have the idea.
You want to record it, but then also there’s the technical skills of editing
and producing and things like that.
Just like you may have a digital virtual assistant, or you may hire an
editor for your blog. Just finding someone to be able to partner with, to
take the recordings and your thoughts and make it something that’s
accessible in the podcast space. It’s not as difficult as people might
think.
Yeah, no.
And you’re absolutely right. This partnership between us has made it so
that I can get to episode 50, which I think I mentioned at the top, but so I
create an outline. I don’t write out what I’m going to say. I have a general
idea. I like to riff a little bit. I have years and years of public training in
person training background where you don’t get a second take when
you’re sitting in front of 50 people.
So I’m a little bulletproof that way. So I liked the riff a little bit. Then I
record, I try to do it all in one shot, again, that’s how I like to do it. And it
takes me 30, 35 minutes with set up the whole things under an hour, and
then I shoot it off to you. And you do your magical fairy things with it,
where you need to take out my flubs, you make everything sound really
good.

And then…you know Jessica, my assistant admin extrodinaire. And then
she writes up the show notes, pulls in the transcript. And what we’ve
learned over time is let’s not try to go all kinds of perfect with the
transcript. Let’s just let it come through.
We say it’s a rough transcript so that it gets across. Otherwise it would
take a million years to get something out. Think about how many words
you say in a half an hour, you’re looking at thousands editing that down
was taking her forever. So we do the rough transcript, all the links in the
show notes, and then it goes out every week.
And so we’re in a rhythm now. I think the key though, is the process. The
process makes it super easy to just keep doing it over and over.
Because without that, I think we get backed up and that kind of thing. So
yeah it’s actually not that hard. If you put a process in place and you
have someone doing things for you as part of it.
And I think the idea is not to let the perfect be the enemy of the good
people listen to, when they say podcasts, they’re thinking like a highly
produced NPR style, and again, and I listen to those shows too. I’m not a
huge fan of the overly produced because it takes a large team to be able
to do that very well.
But when they’re writing a blog, they’re not thinking I’m writing for the
Washington post, the New York times, they write a blog and they write a
blog and they do as best as they can. And obviously there’s certain
things that go along with that, but they’re not thinking that I’m an
accomplished author that is doing this for a year when they’re writing a
blog, but somehow people have it in their minds.
That to be a podcaster, I need to be, John Lee Dumas or something like
that where it’s a matter of John Lee Dumas was a beginner at one point
at some time. And so I think really just getting things off the ground and
getting things started the way that you did. And then obviously wanting
to continue that because understanding of the long-term value of it.
I think that just like anything else this is an example that not a lot of
business people think of as an opportunity. I think in the very beginning,
as some of our early partnerships, there was a show about barbecue
tips and it was getting a lot of downloads, the other show that was in
doing that, that just every week he was sharing, a different thing on how

to barbecue this, or how to base that, or brine, this or something like
that.
And people are looking for that kind of content. I’m not the barbecue
master, he owned his own barbecue show. So that was an example of a
barbecue store. So that was an example of a business owner who was
providing content that was saying, Hey, I’m going to listen to the
barbecue guy. And when I’m in Colorado Springs and I want barbecue
equipment, I’m going to go to the barbecue store and say, Hey, I’m
listening to you, barbecue guy.
And that’s where I think not a lot of business owners are thinking about
this as another way to establish a brand identity. Absolutely. And I firmly
believe I tell all my clients, this, you listen. If you listened to my whole
branding series, education is the fastest route to closing a client. If you
educate someone, they’re going to buy it from you all day long, because
you’re like-minded at that point.
And I think what people have to remember is you’re right done is better
than perfect. And you got to remember your objective what are you
trying to do with the blog. If you’re trying to help people, if you’re trying to
give people information, they will accept it if it’s the right content and
they’re going to forgive everything else, they’re going to forgive the fact
that I trip over my tongue and maybe my audio quality is not quite
perfect.
Like it might not be in today’s episode cause I’m playing around with my
audio between. I get your microphone out. But I will get there. So yeah
it’s about what the content is about. And, I have it in the back of my
mind, like when people come to me and they were like, that episode was
great, so helpful.
I’ve shared it with everybody. I shared it with my boss. I shared it with
these people. And then they come back and then all of a sudden they’re
like, what can you do for us? I’m like, there we go. That’s the question I
want to answer. And sometimes people aren’t ready for me. But at least
my long goal with this is that brand new company starts up.
They’re looking for good marketing. They find the podcast, they educate
themselves. They do a really great job and they get themselves five
years into their business and they’re ready to hand off their marketing.

Hopefully they’re going to come back to me. I’m the one that was with
them via podcast for those last five years.
So that’s kinda like the long game for this really long game. And I think
that none of that would happen if you don’t put yourself out there. If a
business owner is not out there on social media in, and here’s an
example of I had the honor and the privilege and really the joy from a kid
of the eighties of being able to consult on a comic book for that Hasbro
was putting out for GI Joe.
An army guy, but this but this the author of the series at that point was
doing a a special issue of a GI Joe comic book specifically on combat
stress and Post-traumatic Stress Disorder and suicidality, like mental
health. And he found me on social media as a result of my blogs and my
content and things like that reached out to me and said, Hey, would you
mind if you ask some questions and turned out to be an opportunity for
me to consult talk about some different things in the script.
You should say this, you shouldn’t say that this is on target. This is a
little off target. And ultimately that, that issue won a national media
award for reporting on suicide. If I hadn’t been blogging and podcasting
and putting myself out there on social media, as someone who has a
certain expertise in this, he wouldn’t have found me.
The issue still would have been written if they w he would have found
another consultant, perhaps, but that was an opportunity. I think that if
we don’t put ourselves out there and show ourselves as certain experts
then we’re not going to receive the benefit, the personal benefit of
helping out in those kinds of things, much less than professional benefit
from business owners.
Absolutely. And that’s the one thing I noticed in the last month from this
podcast is I’ve got people that I’ve never met in my entire life. They don’t
live near me, reaching out, asking to be on the podcast. And I was like,
whoa, like I made it. Yeah, exactly. And so I literally, I, things I have to
go through today as of this recording, respond back, get them
scheduled, especially now that we have this vehicle to offer them to
right.
Cause it’s a partnership, it’s a give and take. It’s yeah, I want you on my
podcast, but you want something that you can share with your tribe over
there that’s worthwhile. And then we both win. Which is really cool. Well,

Duane, as usual at the time has flown. Any last thoughts before we wrap
this up and I do my little exit spiel?
No. I think that again, congratulations on making it this far. Episode 50 is
a big deal episode. A hundred is going to be a big deal. Episode 300 is
going to be a big deal right now, right? Yeah. And I think that there’s it’s
important to celebrate milestones. This is a big milestone for you in the
podcast and just want to congratulate you.
And I look forward to continuing on the journey. Meet here and just, I
couldn’t have done it without you. So thank you so much. So here at
Inkyma, we like to give back to the business community. I provide a free
45 minute consultation to talk about whatever you want to talk about. So
if you’re now inspired to start your own blog we’ll talk about it.
I’ll introduce you to Duane. You can get rolling, but maybe you want to
talk about blogging, other types of content, marketing, whatever you
want. That’s what that 45 minutes is for. So just go to the website
Inkyma.com. That’s I-N-K-Y-M-A.com. And in the upper right hand
corner, you click the schedule a marketing evaluation button, get on the
calendar and
we are good to go. If you have just a question or maybe you have a
suggestion for an episode, I’d love to hear it and I will get back to you.
So if you found this episode helpful, share it to someone in your
business community that you think might like it too, because if we are all
growing and thriving, then that lifts up the entire small business
community, and we are the backbone of this country.
So let’s keep rocking it and have an amazing day.